Geekonomics
World tells geek how to curve & geek tells world how it can move.
by Nicholas Aaron Khoo, Singapore
Subscribe to this blog
Has SingNet let Singapore down?
Aug 26, 2007 11:29In the latest cyclone of anti-piracy nicknamed "ODEXed" to hit Singapore on anime download, which is quite well covered in "unker" Tan's blog, the focus has begun to shift from Odex to the neo-villian SingNet.
Heard from the grapevine (blogs, forums, and coffeeshops)
"SingNet failed to send a lawyer to contest Odex. Gasp!"
"WTF!!"
-.-"
"o.O"
"I'm changing ISP" (heard quite a few times)
What a PR disaster! And the best part of it is, SingNet is still quiet about it while the entire blogosphere is going crazy over it. A quick scan around the Net and you will find mounting displeasure over SingNet's attitude toward this whole issue.
It's so bad, it's overshadowing the "arrogant Stephen Sing".
And it's no longer about whether Odex is right to sue the kids for piracy in the first place, it's about SingNet not even lifting a finger to protect its customers' privacy.
SingNet should formulate a PR campaign to salvage its reputation, fast.
And in the process change the lawyers advising it on IP issues.
For those of you who do not know, SingNet is the ISP arm of SingTel, one of the largest telecommunications giants in the region with business reaching as far as Australia and way beyond.
For a long, long time, Singapore has been making waves worldwide through good local companies like Singapore Airlines.
SingTel is supposed to be another such iconic company--with its aggressive global expansion strategy.
And for a long time, the market has believed that SingTel is a professionally run company.
All the more which makes this "SingNet failed to send a lawyer to contest Odex" unacceptable.
Even more so, its silence on this PR disaster.
For the 1,000 SingNet subscribers who have been issued letters by Odex and paid their settlement, I can imagine their anger toward SingNet will not be small; noting that Stephen Sing was so scared he had to go to the police after receiving death threats.
Although I do not wish for any of that strong anger to reach here, do sign up for a CNET Asia account and share with me your thoughts in the comments box.
While this privacy issue is already such a big thing for its customers, if SingNet still does not understand customer privacy and get its act together, it will reflect poorly on SingTel as an iconic company for Singapore.
UPDATED Some interesting new links I found:
People's Action Figure Party Peaceful Street Protest
Odex directors were involved with the piracy business Games Mart
- Talkback
-
From hobo's comments - seems that Starhub is entirely in the clear too, just lack of information currently. And that besides a PR disaster, there could be an impending lawsuit from subscribers against their ISP for breach of privacy?
Aug 26, 2007 12:38
not* entirely in the clear - correction
Aug 26, 2007 13:53
Actually from a $$$ point of view...Singnet not turning up in court may actually have saved the Rebellion some $$$ as Odex will not have had to factor in legal attendance costs when seeking their pound of flesh against the Singnet subscribers...
BUT for Starhub, Odex would have added the costs of legal attendance by Starhub's lawyers to the claims which divided by say 1000 subscribers may be a few cents more each...so from a $$$ point of view Singnet's actions actually benefited the Rebellion but Starhub's was merely concerned with their own bacon as opposed to principle or privacy! So all the vilification should be seen in context...SH ain't no angel...
Aug 27, 2007 20:14
hey hobo... interesting viewpoint there. But a friend who spoke to Stephen Sing mentioned that Mr Sing said he had no idea what price to charge for settlement. The figure given to the kids is just an arbitary figure with no real justification.
Anyways, Singnet finally came up and did some PR recovery. I reserve my comments. You judge for yourself
www.straitstimes.com...
Aug 30, 2007 11:50
PR recovery...very funny...you changing to comedy blog ah..
Singnet are technically no litigation virgins...dun forget Singtel v Starhub litigation...IDA v Singtel litigation...now if Singnet are going to say they did not gain any experience from the Singtel cases, or they are separate entities...I've got nothing to say...and CNET can just delete this post...
now lets be very clear so Singnet cannot wriggle out of this...in order for a consent judgment to be made...Singnet through its lawyers must have informed ODEX's lawyers that Singnet consented to the application...now this is a civil case...and Singapore's Court System is adversarial...judge normally does not help you...especially when you are a BIG MUTHA of a GLC... and Singnet's lawyers already informed Odex's lawyers that Singnet consents...court is just going to say OK...hey Singnet ain't no little ole lady being whacked!
"entrust the courts to apply the law and make a ruling"...
I go back to the cases I mention above...take a wild stab...do you think Singtel appeared to contest the cases...did they appear with at least 3 lawyers at all times...did Singnet appeal to the Court of Appeal when they were dissatisfied and did Singtel present counter arguments in principle in court...did they pay their lawyers millions...in the abovementioned cases why did they not just "entrust the courts to apply the law and make a ruling" and accepted it when they lost...why appeal to the highest court in the land...
YES Singnet was served with a court order...BUT THE QUESTION is how was the order obtained?...
If I am a security guard at your office building and someone wants to enter...he needs to give an ID in exchange for a visitor pass these are my instructions...now this guy is as Ah Beng as you can get...he comes the first time no ID...I don't let him in...(equivalent of Singnet's "We reject all requests")...
Now Ah Beng comes back a 2nd time he hands over a california driver's licence for someone called Juan Pedro Gonzales...do I just take the ID and give him a pass or do I need to vet the ID first and at least ask him "yr fadder spanish ah?? so how come speak so hokkien want?"...I keep quiet happily accepting the ID (Singnet's: release such information under a court order")...so "Juan" goes into the building and commits theft...my supervisor then takes me to task...do you think I can get away with: "But he give me an ID wad!!! How I know he not Juan"...
And Singnet should not push the buck back to the courts...judges are aided by lawyers (who represent clients) to come to a decision...if you want to roll over in court; and you are not a minor or insane...in a civil case you are entitled to do so...what a load of crock!...remember Singnet GETS PAID to comply (this is a special exception to the loser pays rule)...so win or lose (within reason)...Singnet gets paid!
Hope the regulator looks into statutory infringements...but this is Singapore...I must be dreaming...
Now I wish I did not suggest that Singnet unwittingly saved money...truly a sorry would have gone a long way...
Aug 30, 2007 13:09
lol hobo thanks for the long long comment! When I said PR recovery, I really meant an 'attempt' since they finally released some sort of press statement on this when they've been quiet on this all along as mentioned in my post "silence on this PR disaster".
Of course I did not mean that their PR recovery attempt was successful LMAO sorry if it sounded that way. I just wanna refrain from commenting as I'm sure all who read the press release can judge for themselves how good/lousy Singnet's spin is, especially the 1,000 ODEXed Singnet subscribers.
But thanks again for the lengthy post, I like the refreshing take you give on things. You should start a CNET Asia blog yourself!
Aug 30, 2007 13:49
in the end, PacNet is still the one which rises to the awkward occassion and at least attempt to defend the consumers' rights. Kudos to PacNet! ^_^
Aug 30, 2007 13:58
No time lah...anyway I am seldom so riled up by apparent social injustice...sadly I am one of those who are compliant to PAPa's instructions...PAPa say jump, I say how high...so keep quiet and go about my merry? way...but this time I see pple who kenar ODEXed and I sense that most of them probably don't even earn in one month what they are asked to cough up...hence my posts...
Aug 30, 2007 14:06
@pie - agreed :) although sadly I think PacNet CEO just stepped down and now there's a huge power struggle inside PacNet.
@hobo - rofl... pleasantly surprised that this is one of the rare issues which you have taken up.
Singnet said in the StraitsTimes Press release that they would released more information on wednesday. I'm not sure as I'm outta town - is the newer/fuller press release out already or isit next Wed?
Aug 31, 2007 05:18
Latest... an insider has told me that the regulator has cleared Singnet of wrongdoing...guessed as much...I think if we were in the wild west we would round up a posse and deal with the bad guys ourselves...heard from another insider...SH actually wanted more money from ODEX than was paid to Singnet to comply with the order...its the essence of their opposition to Odex...
This one goes out to all the JAPS at the conference held by ODEX...Singapore respects your IP rights...its just that you need to assert your rights through proper procedures and you should try to do it reasonably...I am not sure why you (Japs) are pissed off...nothing in the judgment by the District Judge says illegal downloading will be tolerated...perhaps your translator did not do a good job of translating...
Maybe you guys out there should switch from downloading anime to downloading hentai, since illicit videos are still illegal in Singapore (it could go the way of casinos soon) the courts may not touch claims for infringement as it is against public policy and in any event hentai distributors cannot prove any loss as it would be illegal to sell in Singapore in the first place...this last comment is in JEST just in case it is construed as some form of incitement...
Disclaimer: KIDS DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME
Aug 31, 2007 15:02
Hey hobo, thanks for posting the latest news here. Of course we do not expect much from the regulator but "SH actually wanted more money from ODEX than was paid to Singnet to comply with the order" #$%^&*()?!?! but anyways I like your sense of humour! LOL
Aug 31, 2007 15:09
Has Singnet let Singapore down?
Of course.
I'd at least expect Singnet to put up a token fight (like Starhub did). Even if Singnet "lost", people feel will better.
Singnet just to buck up on their "wayang". Odex needs classes in wayang.
Thank god I am not with them.
Sep 01, 2007 17:29
Hi FoxTwo, thanks for dropping by to leave your comments! Yes, that's the point of this post I made, not that I wanna bash SingNet/Singtel but a company as iconic as this should not make such major mistakes without feedback on what a poor job they did. I feel strongly about this because they represent Singapore like an ambassdor just like how Singapore Airlines represents Singapore in the hearts and minds of a lot of international travellers through their iconic brand.
Anyways if you read hobo's latest comments, Starhub's resistance though they got wayang is like #$%^&**(*&^*& !! Raise the price!??! So that means Singnet got paid for the 1,000 IPs too! Why should they get paid since it was a court order for compliance?
Extracted from www.todayonline.com...
"Odex also has to pay the ISPs to reveal their subscribers' identities â one asked for up to $150 per IP address, said Mr Sing."
Although I think ODEX is just capitalising on the current trend to deflect some of othe attention to the ISPs, but why does the ISPs have the right to charge ODEX for the IPs unless maybe they had prior agreements before ODEX went to court?!
Sep 01, 2007 21:13
Some conspiracy theories
SingNet : "OK lah ODEX ... if you pay me $150 per IP address I promise I won't go to court to contest your application for the 1,000 IPs"
Starhub : "What? You not gonna pay me more than what you pay SingNet? Fine, if that's the way you want it, see you in court then!"
PacNet : left out of this theory since they saved their subscribers!
Sep 01, 2007 21:29
Well I believe Singaporeans have voted with their wallets on this issue here....
www.jacktan.org...
If you're at Comex, and need a place to sit and rest - just head for the Singnet booth :)
Sep 02, 2007 18:05
@FoxTwo - lol! Yes, I saw jacktan's post, was more than intrigued by it. I went COMEX today and walked past the Singnet booth... wasn't as empty as in jacktan's pictures but definitely not long queues!
Sep 03, 2007 03:00
About Nicholas Aaron Khoo
Nicknamed "Gadget Boy" by friends at age 18 because he used to scribble Grafitti on a PalmPilot faster than most would type, Nicholas Aaron Khoo is web developer turned technopreneur and Singapore tech blogger who also pretends to do strategic advisory for tech startups and 'un'Fortune 500s (when he's not pretending to be the gadget-loaded Batman). A digital nomad, his tech interests range from gadgets, games, tech trends, social media, security, and just about anything that runs on 1s and 0s. See his industry affiliations here.
Twitter . Contact Nic
Recent Comments
Most Discussed
January
